Pre-soldered Copper Fittings
Picked up a few of these a week ago, but didn’t use them where intended. Today while scoping out a beach house for a regular client, I found the hot and cold lines to a shower burst from winter freeze (I was filling the pipes).
Long story short, the pipes were buried in a wall blocked by a staircase, making accessibility almost impossible. I was able to cut the pipe, but sweating the fitting was gonna be a pita. So I pulled out these self-soldered fittings and used a slip coupling. Worked like a champ. Flux, fit together, apply heat. When the solder started oozing out the joint, the job was done.
Only problem with them appears to be that you have to sweat both ends at the same time. So they appear to be useful primarily if fitting up in place.
I picked up a bigger selection this afternoon. I used several couplings today, but have to admit on those that I had access to, I added more solder while sweating, but the one I didn’t held just fine.
Replies
I learned electronics soldering in the Army Air Defense School, everything was pretinned before fitting up. I have done the same thing on what little water service work I have done - it never occured to me that there might be a difference. I clean, and flux if necessary, heat, flow solder on the part and wipe while hot with a cotton rag. After assembly it is heated and fused.
This doesn't work so well with lead free soldier, though. it appears that the remelt temp is higher than the original melt - maybe the components segregate or alloy with copper.
HarryD
Keep us informed. Folks are interested in how these work out.
At least one nice thing about them vs several other new technologies that are breaking into the market is that you know pretty much right away if they worked -- either the joint leaks or it doesn't.
First time I've used them was today, so I don't have squatolla for history. I can tell you they worked like a champ and I won't hesitate to use them again, especially in renovation work where conditions are cramped. The clearance is tight, so the copper pipe needs to be free of any sharp edge - in fact, I purposely cut off a half inch with a tubing cutter just to get the roundover along the rim so it would fit in easily. Ream it, flux it up and slip it in. Sounds almost erotic. Not that there's anything wring with that...
Selection of fittings isn't as wide, and the price is double that of standard fittings, but in cases of repair work, it's well worth the few extra nickles or dimes.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
I guess you found a good use for them. Access problems. Makes sense.
Before your example, I could never understand the point. You still need to clean and flux, so how hard is it to add your own solder?
...so how hard is it to add your own solder?
When you can only get one hand in there and it's holding the torch...
The other is holding a fire extinguisher cause you just know something is gonna smoke real soon, lol.
I like using the couplings in vertical runs/repairs. The bottom joint on a standard fitting is always a little messy because I want to ensure I've thrown enough solder up there to get good coverage. With these couplings/fittings, the solder is already in the joint, so the odds of a leaker has diminished, theoretically. In actuality, I may have a leaker once in 100 joints, and it's never the bottom joint in a fitting on a vertical run.
Cheap insurance, I guess. If I have to prefit together a shower control, I'll use standard fittings. When it's time to sweat that bad boy in, I will probably reach for these.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
I used a dozen in 1" sizes a month ago because it was the only 1" fittings HD had. Worked fine, didn't save much time at all, but it could certainly might help in a really tight spot. Otherwise not worth the added cost.
I don't mind using my second hand for solder. If I might have wanted to hold a fire extingusher, I've already misted down everything around with a water.
What I've wanted to see for years now is a pre-BRUSHED fitting. Sealed in a little nitrogen-filled bag. With maybe a color-coded chemical to indicate if oxygen had gotten in to the bag somehow. So you tear open the bag, add flux, assembly in the run. Save the time and sore wrists of brushing fittings.
Working with two other guys, on a predictable installations, we'd brush our fittings on the drive to the job. Even pre-assemble (brush, sand, flux) our manifolds. Hang it, sweat it, wipe it, it all moved faster with the prep work already done.
What I've wanted to see for years now is a pre-BRUSHED fitting.
Funny you should mention that. The other day as I plumbed up a shower control, I wondered how many plumbers (or their apprentices) developed carpel tunnel Syndrome over the years brushing fittings and pipe.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
One thing you can do is cut the handle off of the brush and put in your battery drill-zip and perfect elcleano. A problem with pretinning your own fittings is that it is difficult to wipe clean enough to not leave solder that makes the fitting opening too small to go on the pipe. Using pre tinned fittings still require fluxing or tinning of the pipe if you are doing a repair.Having been in electronics for 50 years I (environmental considerations aside, not convienced of the hazzards) use 63/37 solder, a eutetic ratio that is the strongest of the common lead solder ratios and the eutetic solder assures a quick set. If the joint doesn't set with a shine, then you know it has been disturbed as it was setting.I worked with a guy one time who used a resistance soldering unit he adapted to plumbing and for 1/2 and 3/4 joints, it was the most slick operation I had seen. No worries of fire starting or uneven heating in confined spaces.I like your approach....now lets see your departure
Something I've wondered: How much in advance can you clean and flux a part, and still get a reliable joint? An hour? A day? A week?
"How much in advance can you clean and flux a part, and still get a reliable joint?"
An hour, easy.
Couple hours - I haven't tested that a lot, I think okay.
One day - definitely dicey. A lot of them will be fine, but "a lot" like 4 out of 5. Which is LOUSY odds.
So don't hold up the lunch wagon to sweat a run. But finish what you start that day for sure. And, if plans change, I wipe out the excess flux with a wet rag and resand and reflux the next day. Sanding and fluxing can be a drag, until you get into the zen of it. But never nearly the drag that chopping a fitting out of a pipe run to replace a bad joint. I've never found a way to feel good about that.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
"I've never found a way to feel good about that."
Me neither. Which is why I'm a clean freak...if in the slightest doubt about contamination, I clean/brush it again. Got it down pretty good now, so when I turn the water back on I do so without dread. ;)
A few weeks ago, I redid a house main shutoff, my first one. Watched that bugger like a hawk after the City opened her up at the curb - sure felt good when it stayed dry.
> What I've wanted to see for years now is a pre-BRUSHED fitting.
I'd be happier with HD if they'd just sell them without that paper bar code label. Waste time scraping and cleaning it off, or let the miserable thing burn while you solder.
-- J.S.
"I'd be happier with HD if they'd just sell them without that paper bar code label. Waste time scraping and cleaning it off, or let the miserable thing burn while you solder."
Yes, one of the lowest levels of Hell is reserved for those who put sticky tags on the mating surfaces of PVC, ABS, or Cu fittings.
The local hardware store, I can almost forgive - the put the lowest grunt on the price gun and he/she ain't a plumber and hasn't a clue about glue on a working surface.
HD, OTOH, buys millions of the things and could specify exactly what they want their supplies to provide. I mean, their washers have their SKU stamped into them! You'd think they could manage to put the sticky bar code tags in a less plumber-offensive place (PVC/ABS) or print them on directly in a non-toxic ink on Cu. Rather than have us burn the plastic tag off.
End of rant.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
slight hyjacksaw a new products in JLC for copper fittings that were push on. no soldering.used epdm gasket and SS ring w/teeth.got my curiousity up.http://www.nventsolutions.com
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Presoldered fittings are the most popular type in Europe. In use at least 15 years that I know of.
Would you believe a electric paint striping gun will get pipe hot enought to sweat together! Works great for tight spaces where open flame is risky!
Well, you gotta get the pro model. The last unit I bought at a HW store was "dumbed down" and would barely melt wax. I think this was partly because of some big stink made about 10 years ago about how the things could cause a fire. Well, yeah!
I like it. I'm sure you're right (I've set stuff on fire with hot-air guns). But it takes a long time, the joint would be long since soldered.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
the day I found out, thirty miles from a propane refill and two joints to sweat and be done! Yes alittle slow but worked lots of control too!